Listeners' Reflections

This is your place to publicly comment on the topics and issues addressed in Speaking of Faith programs. React in a personal way, and put into words what this program meant to you.

Submit Your Reflection about "Whale Songs and Elephant Loves."

Elephant Vibrations (February 7, 2008)
I wanted to share with you an observation that "resonated" with me after listening to your program. In 2005 while completing my undergrad degree I had occassion to talk with a fellow student, the head of the herpetology department at the Detroit Zoo. We were talking about the zoo's recent decision to divest itself of its elephants on ethical grounds (e.g., it's not good for the elephant to keep them in a small room indoors during our harsh winters) and I asked her what she knew about elephant infrasound communication.

She told me that when they watched the elephants they could always tell when and where the circus was in town, because the elephants would be up against the side of their enclosure, usually pointed in the direction of where those elephants were on the other side of the Detroit-metro area, and, much like Katy Payne was saying she could feel, you could feel the vibration of the infrasound in the air.

When I heard this, I had a moment of the hair standing up on the back of my neck. From this to whales to migrating birds following magnetic fields to navigate, to whatever is going on with bee dancing, to... I don't even know. I'm sure there are countless examples. I suppose I should start over and say that it literally floors me the amount of "things" that are going on all around us, if anything else, because we are not tooled to detect or understand certain things without a lot of study and rumination.

Robert Primeau
Lincoln Park, MI (WUOM, 91.7 FM)

Connections (March 4, 2007)
I listened to this program today as I snowshoed through the 14" of new snow that fell last week. Several times I looked up quickly, expecting to see a wolf nearby, when the voices of elephants and whales were faded into the background of the interview; they reminded to look up and really see and feel the winter woods around me. I was also brought back to the time when my husband and I worked briefly in Tierra del Fuego, where we witnessed massed beachings of juvenile Right Whales, all apparently stranded at low tide when they attempted to rescue one of their "gang" that was caught in the mud.

When we lived in the Amazon region of Peru and worked with indigenous communities in sustainable forestry projects, we (the "experts" with degrees from Western universities) didn't have a thing to teach when it came to the interdependence of plant, animal, and human communities. They know it in their bones, and know, just as the Native Americans of this continent knew, that humans have always needed to co-exist within the totality of their environment. To think that we can designate national parks and forests (where we "protect" nature) and then treat the rest of the environment with total abandon is a symptom of our modern-day disconnection from the "real world."

I wish that next to the price tag on every cell phone, car, gas pump, etc. was a list of all the species that were displaced or killed to mine the resources that went into making it. Then we could decide if we can really afford to buy it. Thank you, Krista, for this beautiful and moving interview, and for not wrapping it up with any easy answers. Sure, we all can and should contribute what we can to the "plant a tree" and "save an elephant" campaigns that are out there, but the real challenge is what Ms. Payne talked about: simplifying our lives and finding out where the line between our needs and our greed really lies. That was another kind of call that made me look up and remember.

Terry Simeone
Land O Lakes, MN (Listens to SOF Podcast)

Evolution of a Sense of Community (February 8, 2007)
I'd like to draw attention to Krista's question (at 16:40) following the account of the death of a calf. The question got to the heart of a common misconception about evolution — that it inevitably involves a nasty, "nature-red-in-tooth-and-claw" competition. She asked whether a sense of social cohesion, responsibility, and caring for individuals who are not one's kin "don't quite make sense in evolutionary terms" and whether Katy Payne is crossing a line between animal and human societies.

Ms. Payne's response was that the "line has been too firmly drawn in the past," and that there were other forms of payback than narrow competitive or reproductive advantage. This comment, and many others in her interview, is a good example of some of the progress in animal behavior and evolutionary biology over the last decade or so.

Although Payne doesn't say explicitly, altruism and a sense of community do make sense in evolutionary terms. Cooperation is as much, or more, of an emergent property of evolution as is competition. Moreover, many behaviors we have naively thought differentiated humans from animals — like language, creativity, tool making, art, and empathy — also exist among animals. In this and in many other areas of biology, we are still exploring paths first blazed by Darwin in The Descent of Man and The Expression of the Emotions in Animals and Man. Ms. Payne is a worthy proponent of that research agenda and the sense of wonder that emerges from it. Wouldn't it be grand if we were to learn that animals also share faith and a sense of the sacred?

Ms. Payne would undoubtedly agree with Darwin: "If we choose to let conjecture run wild, then animals, our fellow brethren in pain, disease, suffering and famine — our slaves in the most laborious works, our companions in our amusements — they may partake of our origin in one common ancestor — we may be all melted together." The end of The Origin of Species says it best: "There is grandeur in this view of life…" Keep up the great work y'all are doing a Speaking of Faith.

Frank Price
Clinton, NY (Listens to SOF OnDemand)

Pause to Understand (February 5, 2007)
I was so saddened and disturbed by this program. There was one section in which you discussed the "culling" of elephants and whales and this really bothered me because it is my belief that there is only one animal in this world that needs culling, and that is humans. The conscious decision to abstain from having children is crucially important but no one will discuss it. It has become taboo to talk about the spirituality of such a choice. I really wish you would be brave and have a program about this.

Joan Kennedy
Clyde, NC (Listens to SOF OnDemand)

Pause to Understand (February 5, 2007)
I enjoyed your discussions with Katy Payne about group animal behaviors. I raise a small herd of bison and wondered if she had studied their interactive behaviors. Former Ranger Bob Jackson is a person who observed and wrote about bison behavior in Yellowstone National Park for 25 years. He currently is a owner/operator of Tall Grass Prairie in south central Iowa.

Katy Payne and people like Bob Jackson explain to us the specifics of not only interaction within a group, but also between that group and its environment. Their writings also should give us pause to understand that we are but visitors on this planet, and stewardship of the planet should be among our highest priorities. Thank you.

Roger Skelton
Rembrandt, IA (WOI, 640 AM)

A Sense of Wonder (February 5, 2007)
Every time I listen to one of your interviews, I have the feeling that I have always wished for and seldom found when I go into a church — a sense of wonder and a renewed nearness to God. Thank you very much and please keep up the good work.

David Marcy
Hamburg, Germany (Listens to SOF OnDemand)

Qualities We Can All Emulate (February 4, 2007)
Today was a blistering cold day in northern Minnesota, and I spent much of the day reflecting on Katy Payne's work and thinking of the beauty of the forest elephants and how we could all benefit from practicing their principles. I listened to their hauntingly beautiful voices you could download and wish we could all have the capabilities of their infrastructures of sound.

I live on an Indian reservation and work as a therapist and wish we would have listened to the Earth more intently on March 21, 2005. As many of you know, we experienced the worst school tragedy here outside of Columbine and, as I listened to the innate qualities inherent in these precious creatures, I thought we could all benefit from their authenticity and intimate family structure and bonding.

Katy Payne talked about the elephants being naturally individualistic, good listeners, affectionate, compassionate, and aware of the infrasound all around them. These are all qualities I try to emulate as a therapist and to the youth I work with. When was the last time we felt really listened to and validated by our feelings and felt heard? When was the last time you affectionately greeted someone else? When did you last witness compassion in someone else and yourself? I loved how she shared that if a group of elephants were separated for just a few hours they would be so excited to see one another it was like New Years Day or a reunion. Truth of the matter, this could be the last day we see a loved one, so embrace the joy of the moment. We have had so many losses here over the last two years but the elephants gave me hope and I will reflect on them this week as I do my work and remember. All is a passing moment, let us be a light to others, listen to our inner voices to be kind and work in unity.

Zhawendaagozi Jejiibajikii. Be blessed elephant.

Alena Hrabcakova
Red Lake Nation (Ojibwa), MN (KNBJ, 91.3 FM)

Made My Day (February 4, 2007)
What a wonderful program! Discovering Kate Payne and her work thru Speaking of Faith made my day.

Sandra Newman
Bangor, PA (WHYY, 91.0 FM)

Sacred (February 4, 2007)
I share Katy Payne's feeling that life on Earth is sacred, and I share her belief in evolution. At one point, Krista asked if the struggle between humans and elephants was about land or food. To my mind, they are the same. I believe the territorial instinct of animals stems from the feeling of hunger. No territory, no sustenance, even for plants. I cannot help but admire people like Katy Payne and I look forward to reading her book. I am frustrated when astronomers ask "Are we alone?" Given elephants and other endangered gems of "creation," my answer is: we weren't.

Russell Agreen
Denton, MD (WYPR, 88.1 FM)

My Animals Are My Church (February 4, 2007)
"We need another and perhaps a wiser and more mystical concept of animals." (Author unknown)

I have been a guide dog handler for 23 years and I'm still amazed every day at the mystery of the canine-human bond that makes dogs want to work for people. While some people are amazed at how highly trained dogs like guide dogs have dramatically saved their handler's lives by pulling them out of the way of an oncoming car, I continue to experience awe and wonder at how my dogs have performed mundane tasks every day like guiding me around obstacles, and safely across streets several times a day. I can often be heard praising my dog for a "Nice," piece of guide word as she takes me safely around a construction barrier. I can appreciate more thoroughly now that I understand positive training what it took to train her to do this work. Positive training has taught me to think about how my dogs think.

I so appreciated Katy Payne's reflections on her work with whales and elephants. A friend who has several dogs and a couple of cats once said, "My animals are my church." They are for me as well. Whales, dolphins and elephants are some of my favorite animals on this planet. I admire their intelligence, their ability to connect with each other and to form bonds with each other and with humans.

I have also experienced wonder about how different species communicate with each other. Recently, I experienced a "dolphin encounter," at the Minnesota Zoo. My current guide dog, Brook attended the event with me. She had been watching our activities with the dolphins from a distance. As we were completing our encounter, the head trainer brought Brook over to the dolphin pool. A young four-year-old dolphin named Spree had expressed something that might be interpreted in human terms as delight and inquisitiveness when she first saw Brook. As Brook and the trainer approached the pool, Spree and Brook reached out to each other. They came almost nose to nose. They stared at each other for almost a minute. Then Spree swam away, picked up a toy, and brought it back and set it on the pool deck near Brook as if it was an offering of friendship.

We know so little about how animals communicate with each other and with us. After handling guide dogs for 23 years, and watching them stretch beyond their training over and over again, and understanding that the reason they do this is because of the relationship they have formed with their handler, I know that Katy is right when she says that we are only just beginning to learn about what animals have to teach us.

It is an honor and a privilege to hold the other end of the leash in my hand every day. I don't understand my connection and fascination with communication with animals as an "airy fairy," expression of my spirituality, more it is an extension of my Quaker practice to reflect on the things in my life that bring me closer to God. My relationships with my dogs have been some of my greatest blessings over the past 23 years. My dogs have continued to teach me about myself through my relationships with them. My dogs have been responsible for my life and safety every day of my life since I met my first guide dog in January of 1984. In turn they have looked to me for their food, love and affection, and a safe warm place to live. It seems so little in return for what they give me.

Below is an adaptation of the 23rd Psalm [by Larry Liggit] that expresses much of how I feel about my relationships with my dogs: "My dog is a shepherd, just what I want. She makith me to rise early every morning. She leadith me beside garbage cans and parking meters, she restorith my freedom. She guidith me in paths of safety for my life's sake. Yea though I walk through the thunder of the railroad station and among the mongrels of Flagery Street, I will fear no evil fore she is with me. The creek of her harness and the jingle of her collar they comfort me. She preparith the way for me in the presence of all confusion. She coverith my hand with affectionate licks and nibbles and my love for her runnith over. Surely with affection and correction I shall follow her all the days of her life and she will dwell in my heart forever."

Lolly Lijewski
Minneapolis, MN (KNOW, 91.1 FM)

Nature's Call for Empathy (February 4, 2007)
Thank you very much for today's program on Katy Payne's wonderful work. As a loyal listener and long-time animal advocate very familiar with the concerns you conveyed so impressively, I am deeply grateful that you raised the importance of listening to nature's calls for empathy so well.

Elaine Livesey-Fassel
Los Angeles, CA (KPCC, 89.3 FM)

The Best (February 4, 2007)
Thank you for the program "Whale Songs and Elephant Loves." It was one of the best I've ever heard on public radio.

Barbara Miller
Allentown, PA (WHYY, 91.0 FM)

Totally in Tune (February 3, 2007)
I am so glad I was up this morning to hear this show! I am a science teacher in an all girls public school, and Katy Payne's story was totally in tune with my search for heroes! This show struck a chord in that Payne's scientific interests and accomplishments were presented as a synthesis of her womanhood, keen observation skills, love of music and life, and openness to faith development. The story was inspiring and exciting to me as a mother of four children as well. I wonder how her children fared "growing up in the field." I am curious enough about her life and work now to pursue the story and read more. The selected music and pointedly researched interview questions all contributed to producing a program with a powerful and resounding appeal.

Mary Ellen Muldoon
Scarsdale, NY (WNYC, 93.7 FM)

Payne Needs to Speak Up (February 2, 2007)
While understandable, I was dismayed by Ms. Payne's lack of solutions or positive attitude towards saving species. The reality is there is little hope for mankind and animals, but we need those who educate to provide options. For example, the elephant herds are being culled indiscriminately. This has led to pain and frustration for both elephants and humans who respect them. Couldn't Katy reach out and teach them how to better control the herds, in a more humane (what a word) way? If not herself, then reach out to other organizations to help. I think we're well past the days of simply showing the problem. Look at the river dolphins in China — extinct. Remember, the person who planted a tree in Africa? A person can make a difference. Did you also feel a bit depressed or helpless?

Wayne Scarano
Hillsborough, NJ (WNYC, 93.7 FM)